Red Dwarf has had its day

I re-watched all the episodes recently and was quite sad to see it end on such a strange note (Dwarf crew in mirror dimension and Rimmer trapped) so I would hope that the new one at least ends the series well.

I agree its probably had its day but I wouldn’t say no to more.

“This isn’t what the fans want.”

Speak for yourself!
As a Fan Club team member I can tell you that there are plenty of fans out there who have been desperate for new Red Dwarf material for the last 10 years!

Why do you think that the 2 episodes will be a clip shows?
The lads are recording new material for these shows at the moment and we have been told by GNP, Craig and Robert that there are new scripts for these brand new episodes.
The clip show element was to do with the improvisation show – it was labelled ‘ A clip show with a difference’ we don’t know much about this yet other than it will feature the lads on stage in front of a live audience.

The information you have seems to be skewed, there’s plenty of up to date information out there to be found, along with the very active fanbase who still want new Dwarf. You may not be interested any more, but there are plenty out there who are, myself included.

I politely disagree.

> have seen every single episode of the show from its very first showing in 1988

Before we start, no one’s impressed with this, it isn’t a valid badge of honour, and it makes naff all difference to how your opinions should be taken. Just so we’re clear.

> This isn’t what the fans want.

I’m interested by this blanket statement. Have you been visiting sites like the official webboard, the fan club forum or a fansite like Ganymede & Titan to gage the fan opinion? Apart from the inevitable mixed reactions of the news, I’d say that in general the fans want new Red Dwarf and details like the channel doing the commissioning and broadcasting are irrelevant. I’d be interested where you came to your definitive conclusion.

> but from what I have head it sounds as if the two episodes will be more of a clip show than story

Where have you heard this? Back when details of the episodes were first leaked there was talk of a clip show, but that has since morphed into the ‘clip show with a difference’ Red Dwarf: Unplugged. Nothing announced about the episodes has even suggested that they will feature ANY old clips, let alone that they will be “more of a clip show than a story”. We simply don’t know. What we DO know, however, is that there is most definitely a strong story for these episodes.

> The other two episodes in this new “series”

A small point, I know, but who are you quoting? I’ve barely seen anyone refer to these episodes as a series. They’re specials and that’s what they’ve always been referred to by the production and the fans.

Obviously I’m not having a go at your opinion – it’s perfectly valid to be worried about these specials as in the history of bringing back decades old shows have been far from trouble free, but try not to mangle the details and present them as facts. Cheers.

Also, Grant Naylor Productions have been making world class making off documentaries for the DVDs before Doctor Who even returned to our screens! I think it’s fair enough that they fancy having a go at actually properly documenting a new episode rather than battling with the archives!

Hi Guys. Welcome to the land of Big Giant Robots.

You have both made fair comments, and I hope you will let me answer.

“This isn’t what the fans want”.. I stand by that. As a fan I want a new full series, as a fan I am sure you will say the same. I want at least 6 new episodes, written Rob and Doug together, full of the magic that was there so many years ago. I have high standards for Red Dwarf, and I want these new episodes to live up to them.

I’m sorry Jonathan. Having only seen every episode when it was originally broadcast and repeated, and owned every single episode on video, and on DVD.. you might be right, its probably not enough.

I think maybe my reason for writing this has been lost. I am looking forward these new shows. I will watch them with an open mind, and a hope I will be surprised with something I don’t expect.

If I find that I love them I will sing their praises from my tiny corner of the internet. But right now… I fear I will be let down. It is not something I like to say, but I can only go on the evidence I have being presented with. Chloë Annett is not involved, its not being shown on the BBC, the format has been completely changed. Maybe this is a change for the better?

> Hi Guys. Welcome to the land of Big Giant Robots. You have both made fair comments, and I hope you will let me answer.

Thanks for the welcome

> “This isn’t what the fans want”.. I stand by that. As a fan I want a new full series, as a fan I am sure you will say the same.

Well, obviously I’d love a new series too but my overriding desire is to see Red Dwarf continue. The form in which that continuation takes is close to irrelevant in my mind, as the impression I’ve got is this is the only real opportunity they’ve had to return the series to TV, as the BBC recently passed on a series IX. The specials are the only way the show can move forward and the overall hope (as stated by GNP on the official site) is to follow this up with more. Possibly even a full series. At the moment, though, I think it’s a case of beggars can’t be choosers.

> I want at least 6 new episodes, written Rob and Doug together, full of the magic that was there so many years ago. I have high standards for Red Dwarf, and I want these new episodes to live up to them.

Yeah, I definitely have high standards, too. The Rob Grant issue is a tough one, though. He clearly has no desire to write fully for the show (in fact, he *did* return to finish up a ‘lost script’ from series 1 for The Bodysnatcher Collection DVD, as I’m sure you know) so if we want new Dwarf then it’s going to have to be Doug as the sole writer. I don’t think the lack of Rob Grant specifically signals that the new episodes will be poor – it’s been a long time since the disappointment of VII and VIII, after all.

> I’m sorry Jonathan. Having only seen every episode when it was originally broadcast and repeated, and owned every single episode on video, and on DVD.. you might be right, its probably not enough.

No, that’s not what I meant. I was just pointing out that seeing all the episodes on original broadcast and all that guff isn’t this big badge of honour that bestows infinite wisdom about what all fans want… which is the vibe I got from your article.

> I think maybe my reason for writing this has been lost. I am looking forward these new shows. I will watch them with an open mind, and a hope I will be surprised with something I don’t expect.

Don’t get me wrong – I have deep worries about these new episodes. I wouldn’t be a Red Dwarf obsessive if I didn’t possess high expectations and equally deep worries. There’s always the fear that a new era of your favourite show will let you down, but what my main point in my original comment was is that I object to your assertation that “this is not what fans want”. Because that, like all blanket statements projecting your own opinion onto a huge group of people, is totally incorrect.

> Chloë Annett is not involved, its not being shown on the BBC, the format has been completely changed. Maybe this is a change for the better?

It certainly seems like these episodes will be fresh. Have you seen the recent leaked set photos and today’s officially released cast photo? The story seems like it’ll be VERY fresh (and more than a little controversial) but the cast photo suggests that they will be episodes with a great deal of respect and reverence for how the show used to be.

Thanks for the response Jonathan.

I think we are both in the same place. We love Red Dwarf and would love it more if it were able to return. I am with you on the form of the return being irrelevant. Is that possible? who knows.. we might yet see it

But a bad episode doesn’t only reflect badly on that series (what ever form its in) it taints the show over all. If you look at the all time Classic shows like “Fawlty Towers” or “Porridge” they are eternal purely for the fact they knew when to draw the line. If GNP can come up with something new then I will be happy to see the return. But if its anything less than amazing… I would rather the show stayed where it is.

I know its harsh and I am sorry for that. But its how I feel.

Out of interest, what did you think of series VII and VIII?

I actually really like series VII, very much underrated. I think Chloë Annett was a great addition to the team, and there were some great episodes. “Blue” in particular is one of my favorites. Plus any appearance of Ace is always good

Series VIII I was much less happy with. The plot lines were just not as good, and the whole new dwarf with the entire crew being being brought back was just not good (beside the fact it makes no sense). Though it was nice to have Chris Barrie back, and the last episode is a lot of fun.

How about you? What did you think of them?

Well, the point I was trying to make is you dislike series VIII but that doesn’t affect your enjoyment of the series, does it? Why would it be any different if you also dislike these new specials?

And, for the record, I’m not a fan of either, but I refer VII.

Sorry I haven’t had chance to come back before now, but the conversation does seem to have moved on. I just wanted to state for the record that I have no problem with you having differing opinion – a good debate is what makes the world go round! The only issue that I had was with the comment “This isn’t what the fans want” when what you meant was “This isn’t what *I* want”, I don’t think that any of us is in a position to speak for ‘the fans’.

That said, you should keep up to speed with all the latest developments and there is a very vocal fanbase out there and you should get involved. Here are some links to help you on your way!

http://www.reddwarf.co.uk
http://www.reddwarffanclub.com
http://www.ganymede.tv

I hate to say this, but its exactly because of series VIII that I am not looking forward to the new specials, and the reason I wrote this article.

While series VII tried some new things, played with the formula, on the whole I think it succeeded (except for “Beyond a joke”).

Series VIII just destroyed everything I hold dear about the show, to the point where my view is now so tainted I would rather they did not do any more than continue to flog it. I can’t believe I am saying it, there was a time where I would do anything to get more dwarf

I have no idea what they would have to do to bring the show back. Like I said there is still a part of me that has to watch it, and I am looking forward to just seeing them all back together again.

I would be interested to know your opinion of the specials after they have gone out. What is your all time favourite episode of Red Dwarf?

I know just where you are coming from Binny. Whenever I catch part of an episode of the first 3 seasons of Buffy or the X-Files I’m filled with pity for what will become of my beloved characters and I sit there weeping that these stories will be followed up by inferior and sometimes wtf storylines.

I find a bad season of a show really can taint my memories and does make me less likely to watch the original seasons that I love, stupid but true. The Dwarf is a perfect example of this, I haven’t watched Red Dwarf since VIII was on TV.

As a comedy I think Red Dwarf has a good chance of getting away with making a comeback but I can’t say I’m either eager or dreading the specials as to me it can’t get worse but I don’t want to raise my hopes up. That’s my opinion and I speak for only me

binny – does your dislike for VIII *really* affect your ability to watch and enjoy the old series’, though? For me, their quality shines and blots out any bad feelings I have about VII and VIII. I’ll never be able to understand how 36 brilliant episodes can be in any tainted by 16 crap ones.

> I would be interested to know your opinion of the specials after they have gone out. What is your all time favourite episode of Red Dwarf?

I’ll be sure to pop along and let you know Meanwhile, you should have a look at the fansite I co-run (presuming you haven’t already), Ganymede & Titan (the link’s attached to my name) as it’s a fantastic community, myself and the other editors do a good job of keeping track of all developments and posting our thoughts and there’s a cracking collection of old and new articles and Podcasts.

Oh, I almost forgot – my favourite episode is currently Future Echoes. In fact:

http://www.ganymede.tv/indepth/the-top-51-episodes-of-red-dwarf

Great post of the 51 episodes Jonathan, almost did one of these myself but its never left the draft tray.

Your top 10 is almost exactly what I think as well glad you didn’t put Gunmen of the Apocalypse at number 1 like so many people do, its good but far from the best.

It was an interesting list to compile as all the editors sorted out their own complete list and then we combined them into what I think is a really good list. I’m especially pleased with the top 5.

I have been looking at your site . Do love it. I was actually reading through it last night. Looking at the leaked shots from the production ( http://www.ganymede.tv/atspeed/2009/02/first-set-picture ) and I see you were just as … dumb founded as I was with them. What the hell is that car about? why are they on the Coronation Street set? So its going to be a Red Dwarf / Coronation Street cross over? nice! I hate to say it.. but my hopes for it are starting to fade.

Not sure I like the changes to Kryten’s and Rimmer’s costumes either. Subtle changes, but just don’t seem in keeping with the normal style. But it doesn’t really bother me, I won’t hung up on it. But it brings me to a problem. Rimmer is a hologram again? Going to be a leap to fit that in.

Please don’t think I am trying to stamp my feet.. but that top 10 is not my top 10. I am starting to think maybe I am wrong But a good list non the less.

Of course the last two series don’t stop me from enjoying the greatness that is Red Dwarf. But I am always thinking they were so good here and they threw it away.

@singingpotato1979 as I said to Jonathan. I stand by what I said. I.. as a fan want a new series like it was before. As a fan I am sure you are the same. So what the fans really want is a new full series like it was. I was worried these new shows would be just flat… now I am worried they will all be set in the Rovers Return with Kryten pulling pints and Rimmer trying to get Lister to sing “Om!” on Karaoke night

P.S. Like you profile pic Jonathan

binny – yeah the Carbug picture and the fact they’re filming on the set of Corrie baffled the hell out of me, but I’ve not allowed myself to make any snap judgements just yet (as tempting as it might be) as Robert Llewellyn and the official Red Dwarf site are really trying to make it clear that it isn’t what it seams (i.e. a crossover) and something much more worthwhile and clever. Also, bear in mind that this is just one day’s filming out of about 2 weeks worth, so I can imagine it only being a very fleeting visit.

> now I am worried they will all be set in the Rovers Return with Kryten pulling pints and Rimmer trying to get Lister to sing “Om!” on Karaoke night

You know, I think I’d pay to see that

Also, bibby, any chance you could shoot me an email on the address I’ve given in my details to discuss something that might interest you?

Dropped you an e-mail

I am trying not to fly off the handle.. we will have to see what comes from it.

I just hope they really do have something clever up their sleeves.

Some more pics from the set have been released. http://dave.uktv.co.uk/library/red-dwarf/red-dwarf-news-street-exclusive-images/

Now they are not only on the set of corrie they are in “The Rovers Return”. Our friends over at Ganymede.tv are talking about it. http://www.ganymede.tv/atspeed/2009/02/new-pictures-from-the-street

More information coming from Robert Llewellyn’s Twitter: apparently they’re canning the Red Dwarf: Unplugged show in favour of an extra Back to Earth episode! Very interesting, indeed.

To be honest this actually worries me. This means they don’t actually know what they are filming. They haven’t finished playing with the scripts and the format.

I was hoping these episodes would be something they have had planned for years and have been refining the script for a long time. But now it looks like someone suggested Dave might make a few episodes and they all just said “yeah… why the smeg not?”

I am pleased to see they are using the “RED” camera system. At least if it is a flop.. it will be a high def flop.

binny, this might alley your fears a little:

http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/news/2009/02/20/back-to-earth-the-trilogy

Sounds good, bring on April

[...] is just unfortunate that it fell so flat after so much hype. In case you have not seen it I wrote an article on my expectations for the new show a while back that caused some [...]