I think you are right.. We going to have to disagree on this one.

As I said. The fight work on this is second to none. Yanin is amazing and I think she has an amazing future ahead of her. I even think I said its a film worth seeing. But there are massive swathes of this movie that are just not necessary. I am all for plot and character development (thats all there is in Audition).

I will happily sit through a popcorn flick.. We all will. But this film doesn’t have the feel good pay off of those films. It is not content to just be enjoyable, it is trying to get a message over to you and for that reason I can’t put it in that category. But I don’t think that is a bad thing. I would prefer a film has a message it wants to give you instead of just being content as a shelf filler. Look at a film like “Verses” not a high budget film by a long shot, it is well paced and concise. That is what “Chocolate” does not have. It lurches from point to point without much connection between them.

This brings the most frustrating thing about the film. The idea is genius. It makes perfect sense for her to be able to learn these skills, and to be able to apply them. Even down to mimicing Bruce Lee (excellent to see). She would do that, that is what she saw so that is what she will do. The acting is top rate, to the point where I really had problems working out if it was an act, or if the lead had problems. You just don’t see that very often. But the surrounding actors were terrible, there is no excuse for that.

Ironically Grizzley I would put “Desperado” ahead of “Sin City”. Its lower budget works well with the look. But the plot stands out ahead of “Sin City”. I have watched “Desperado” many times compared to once for “Sin City”. The action is not all that important. “Content is king” as the saying goes. I would rather watch “Kind Hearts and Coronets” as opposed to “Die Hard” any day of the week.

I am surprised we are so separated on this film. But I am glad you enjoyed it, and it has found a good home

I agree with you Sideswipe. The bit where she mimics the twitchy Brazilian style is awesome, and I was hoping for more bits like that in the film given the unique idea they are playing with.

This had a plot which you could follow hello Hollywood please take note I want to be able to know what’s going on! It had action in spades! at no point was it slow or poorly paced it went along at a perfectly acceptable pace, thinking now I cannot think of a movie in this style that goes much quicker, yes there was 20 minutes at the start where pretty much nothing happened but that’s called back story and plot something sadly lacking from movies these days, that was where you connected (or not as is probably the case with binny) with the lead character.
Yes I grant you that if it was a Hollywood movie she would have started as grown up had two 3 minute flashbacks to do the same thing in a Tarentino/CSI way but I’m a little old fashioned and I quite like seeing the beginning at the beginning and the end at the end.

There are plenty of slower movies out there the Audition for one (I couldn’t even sit through the boring bit at the beginning to get to the other bit). I really liked this movie I cannot say enough nice things about it had a beginning a middle and an end all nicely dusted with some of the best martial arts committed to film in this century (I can say that because we are only a few years in).

Comparing this movie to Azumi or house of flying daggers is like comparing desperado to Sin City the budget’s just don’t compare, they are not the same movie. Having watched action films from 15 years ago I can tell you, you’ll be glad this movie was made now it is superior in every way. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree but if you ever want to see some proper martial arts movies from the far east let me know, as I’m sure your experience of them is the equivalent of only having watched Spiderman and LOTR if you are from the far east.

So what if the story is basically a video game plot – Gen from DOA – fighting to get money to pay for hospital bills sound familiar? well at least they reversed the roles which I don’t remember seeing before. It’s still a story not usually done in films and the lead being autistic worked for me, a convincing and really well done plot device to let her learn martial arts and even swordplay. The bit where she learns the brazillian martial art from the guy with the twitch is superb.

Maybe because I don’t have kids or maybe I have seen so many shounen manga & anime I can sit through the sadness knowing it is making the characters stronger.

Quite bizarre that when there is a well acted part of story you then use it to bash the film and ask for something sophisticated – seriously wtf?

Anyway, it’s a shame because if you can get past the sadness it is a great film.
Granted it’s not Kung Fu Hustle good but I’ve been through all Stephen Chows US/UK released films and a good percentage of his Hong Kong ones and even he doesn’t come that close to it again. I say there is a difference between great and enjoyable – Commando is not great but it is enjoyable. I rank Kung Fu Hustle in my top 2 films ever alongside Spaceballs as the most entertaining films ever but I couldn’t list this anywhere near them as there is too much story but not enough to disqualify it from being a great film all the same. In fact, I’d say the acting is what raises it to a great film instead of a good popcorn film like Azumi.

But I can not be as forgiving as you as far as story goes. There is so much they want to get across, and it is so depressing, and drags on for so long it just destroys the film for me.

If they chopped off the first half of the film, came up with a more compelling story, and got rid of some of the terrible actors. This would be a great film.

Of course I don’t watch Bruce Lee films for their story (unfortunately he died before he got the chance to star in a film with a story to match his skills. Though “Enter the Dragon” hints at was was going to come). But at least those films don’t want to ram it down your throat. They know the story is weak, but have the skills to cover it, and the good grace to just let Mr Lee do his thing.

But when there are films like “Kung-Fu Hustle”, “Azumi” or “House of flying daggers” that are setting the standard. This film just does not even compare. At no point during either of those three did I think “It would be more fun to slit my wrist than watch a second more of the depressing film”. That’s the feeling I got from this one, when there wasn’t action on the screen. Its to the credit of the lead she plays it so well I really felt bad for her.

This film would be fine if it were made 15 years ago. But the market has moved on. I expect something a little more sophisticated.

Comparing this to other similar films, I’d rate it better than Warrior King which has Tony Jaa in some similar fights but with a much weaker and frankly annoying story despite there being a more impressive 1 on 1 fight. Ong Bak is a more non-stop action film but outside of Bruce Lee’s work and Jet Li’s Fearless, there aren’t many films that pull off justifying the need for fights and showcase them so well. Pacing-wise, it’s still faster than Curse of the Golden Flower or Crouching Tiger. The fights are dispersed but it’s not that long a film (89mins) – the gap really isn’t that big. I’d say the pacing is probably closest to Jackie Chan’s Police Story films. I’d compare it to a bunch of other films but I know you won’t have seen them so it’s pointless to tell you how wrong you are about the pacing or the acting which for a Martial Arts film isn’t bad, the script may be a little shoddy in places but compared to other contemporaries, nothing earth shattering.

There was plenty of action in the second half, more than enough to make up for the slow start. I got to see plenty of flowing moves resulting in obvious pain to stuntmen.

And seriously, are you telling me you watch Bruce Lee films for their story telling? I have to disagree with you on this and disagree in a big way.

If you look at some of the other films about that need a fight scene, they are very different affairs. Chan-Wook Park’s amazing “Oldboy” ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364569/ ) for example. Has a fantastic, and unforgettable fight scene (to be honest more effective than anything in Chocolate) but that is what I would class as an honest fight scene done with who they had to hand. The skill of the director pulls it off and its works as part of the film.

“Chocolate” is very much a classic Kung-Fu film al la Jackie Chan, or Bruce Lee. Unfortunately it just doesn’t have the story telling, or comedy that make their films great.

Just take a average movie punch up in the west, one of the really poor ones in a drama well thats their equivalent. Over there a fight has to be good and has to be real and unlike us who settle for some dodgy fat bloke throwing a haymaker that could get dodged by a granny they don’t.

Then when they bring it over here they talk up the action because its a selling point, over there it was a drama with some kick ass fights. I have a number of movies in the same vein I’m sure its just a western marketing tool.